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HOF?

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HOF?

Postby Iconoclast » January 22nd, 2019, 6:48 pm

Everybody is talking about Mariano and the potential for a unanimous vote for him, but the more compelling stories for me are if Bonds or Clemens make it in. Are writers willing to overlook the juice?
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Re: HOF?

Postby Iconoclast » January 23rd, 2019, 7:38 pm

Looks like Bonds and Clemens won’t make it, if the current trend continues. Ther HOF does turn over voters however so maybe there are new voters added who are more open to them in the next few years.
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Re: HOF?

Postby MikeTheTiger » January 24th, 2019, 2:29 pm

Iconoclast wrote:Looks like Bonds and Clemens won’t make it, if the current trend continues. Ther HOF does turn over voters however so maybe there are new voters added who are more open to them in the next few years.


Right now, it seems like there is more than 25% of the current voters who are firm in their convictions against letting them in. The question is whether there will be enough turn over in three years to overcome that and whether anything would change their minds. They say they are firmly against them now, but I think at least some of them will get down to the last year and relent. I think it'll be close, but they may fall just short.

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Re: HOF?

Postby Iconoclast » January 30th, 2019, 7:18 pm

MTT. I agree. It’s going to corne down to the last year or so of eligibility. It’s going to be up to the amount of turnover and if the new voters overlook the juice. We are going to be getting millennials who are voting and I suspect they will have different views. The other interesting issue will be Big Pappi. He was a juicer and Dan O’Shaunasey of the globe has been dead set against voting for the juicers. How will he vote for Pappi, a player that was extremely popular in Boston. Will he suddenly change his mind?
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Re: HOF?

Postby MikeTheTiger » January 31st, 2019, 10:07 am

Iconoclast wrote:MTT. I agree. It’s going to corne down to the last year or so of eligibility. It’s going to be up to the amount of turnover and if the new voters overlook the juice. We are going to be getting millennials who are voting and I suspect they will have different views. The other interesting issue will be Big Pappi. He was a juicer and Dan O’Shaunasey of the globe has been dead set against voting for the juicers. How will he vote for Pappi, a player that was extremely popular in Boston. Will he suddenly change his mind?


Yes, it will be interesting to see how he treats that case. I'm sure he'll justify it by saying nothing was ever proven. Technically nothing was ever proven against Bonds or Clemens either. I just don't see how voters can pick-and-choose from that era. Either they keep them all out or they let them all in. The players are the ones who blocked any real testing and penalties during that time period, so I'm not inclined to be as concerned about whether or not players did something that wasn't against the rules at the time. If they didn't care about their health, why should I? To me, that's really the only issue. Otherwise, it's no different than any of the other advancements over time that have made players bigger, faster, stronger and more durable.

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Re: HOF?

Postby irishmark » February 1st, 2019, 2:47 pm

I still find Harold Baines puzzling!

Lee Smith, I get! He was the all time saves leader. 486 career saves.

But Harold was a career .289 average with 384 career home runs, 2,866 career hit. Nice player, but why HOF?
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Re: HOF?

Postby MikeTheTiger » February 1st, 2019, 3:20 pm

irishmark wrote:I still find Harold Baines puzzling!

Lee Smith, I get! He was the all time saves leader. 486 career saves.

But Harold was a career .289 average with 384 career home runs, 2,866 career hit. Nice player, but why HOF?


Baines made it in because the committee was stacked with people with ties to the White Sox. It was cronyism, pure and simple.

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Re: HOF?

Postby Iconoclast » February 2nd, 2019, 3:46 pm

The Baines decision has recieved a lot of backlash. I don’t think they will allow something like that to happen again.

And to be honest, if Baines has retired with those numbers in 1950, he would have gone in. Today’s players really need to post some big numbers to get voted in without people questioning it. Today’s game is so offensive minded.
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Re: HOF?

Postby Iconoclast » February 4th, 2019, 7:39 pm

MikeTheTiger wrote:
Iconoclast wrote:MTT. I agree. It’s going to corne down to the last year or so of eligibility. It’s going to be up to the amount of turnover and if the new voters overlook the juice. We are going to be getting millennials who are voting and I suspect they will have different views. The other interesting issue will be Big Pappi. He was a juicer and Dan O’Shaunasey of the globe has been dead set against voting for the juicers. How will he vote for Pappi, a player that was extremely popular in Boston. Will he suddenly change his mind?


Yes, it will be interesting to see how he treats that case. I'm sure he'll justify it by saying nothing was ever proven. Technically nothing was ever proven against Bonds or Clemens either. I just don't see how voters can pick-and-choose from that era. Either they keep them all out or they let them all in. The players are the ones who blocked any real testing and penalties during that time period, so I'm not inclined to be as concerned about whether or not players did something that wasn't against the rules at the time. If they didn't care about their health, why should I? To me, that's really the only issue. Otherwise, it's no different than any of the other advancements over time that have made players bigger, faster, stronger and more durable.



And MTT, to be fair, Griffey and Rivera played during the era of substance so how do we know that they didn't use them? The baseball world doesn't think so, and they show no obvious signs of use, so they voted them in to the hall, Griffey at like 99.3% and Rivera at 100%. Today, we see players getting caught using substances and they show no obvious signs. I wouldn't have suspected Braun to be a juicer, but he was caught. We really don't know who did or didn't use, yet HOF worthy players are being kept out because of suspicions.
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Re: HOF?

Postby MikeTheTiger » February 5th, 2019, 10:10 am

Iconoclast wrote:And MTT, to be fair, Griffey and Rivera played during the era of substance so how do we know that they didn't use them? The baseball world doesn't think so, and they show no obvious signs of use, so they voted them in to the hall, Griffey at like 99.3% and Rivera at 100%. Today, we see players getting caught using substances and they show no obvious signs. I wouldn't have suspected Braun to be a juicer, but he was caught. We really don't know who did or didn't use, yet HOF worthy players are being kept out because of suspicions.


Yes, I agree with that. That's why I said they should either exclude all players from that era or none. It's all speculation.

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