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Any Options for more variety in NCG games?

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Any Options for more variety in NCG games?

Postby Xenon » December 29th, 2018, 10:36 pm

In the NFL, they try to get some rotation among the teams over time with a couple of different approaches....
1) Drafts ... the better you did one year, the lower (generally) your draft, which hopefully leads to the weaker teams eventually get better draft picks and get betterat.
2) Schedules... the better you did one year, the harder your schedule is supposed to be the next year, playing more teams that also did better that year.

Other leagues have other approaches as well ... relegation in soccer leagues for example.

We are now looking at a third round of Clemson vs Alabama .... with honestly no one else even close ....

I'm wondering if there is an approach within College Football to help break up the dynasties .....

In principle, the fact that every year you lose roughly speaking 1/4 of your players, and in 4 or 5 years should have basically a whole new team SHOULD give more variety and break up the dynasties .... but it doesn't seem to be doing that.

Are their other approaches?

For example .... what about Schedules ... could you implement something like the four CFP teams have to play the next four teams AT the lower ranked team's home stadium first game next year? It would reek havoc with schedules planned out 3 to 5 years in advance... and I don't know if making Clemson or Alabama play at Florida or Georgia or Washington State or Ohio State next year would really make a huge difference, as I suspect Bama wins anyway ... but making their schedule a bit tougher might make a difference....

Far more radical .... Teams in the CFP this year ARE NOT ELIGIBLE NEXT YEAR REGARDLESS OF RECORD ... that would, I think spread the recruits around more ... since it means going to the Loaded Team might mean you don't get to go back again .... But at the same time, I think it would be an awful precedent and really put lots of asterisks all over the place since you might very well have an undefeated Alabama in year TWO that doesn't play for the championship.

Is there something in the middle ....?

Do we need to reduce the number of scholarships again so that a few teams don't stockpile all the best players? What if the Champion had 6 less scholarships for the incoming freshman class after winning the championship (runner up 4 less and the other two CFP teams each lose 2). Would that spread the talent around a little better and give us more variety?

Of course, this all assumes that some variety is GOOD for the sport ... maybe that is a false base assumption .... is CFP better with 2 to 4 clearly dominant and clearly superior teams?

Just wondering a bit ....

Any crazy ideas?

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Re: Any Options for more variety in NCG games?

Postby Jake » December 29th, 2018, 10:52 pm

Eight team playoff, auto bids for the P5 conference champs - winning your conference should matter - plus 3 at-large bids chosen by the committee (there you go, Domers). The committee would then seed teams - conference champs wouldn't necessarily get the top five seeds.

First round games would be played at the home site of the higher seed then do as we do now.

Imagine playoff games in Columbus or South Bend in December, Bama hosting a playoff game in Tuscaloosa, Clemson in Death Valley. Might still get Clemson-Bama, but it'd be more interesting.

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Re: Any Options for more variety in NCG games?

Postby Xenon » December 29th, 2018, 11:35 pm

Jake,

I have a problem with that idea at least for getting variety .... it's power protect, and it's at the end of the season.

I think Alabama would kill Washington or Texas IN TUSCALOOSA, so what good does that do me ... it's the same ... it's be a ANOTHER 20+ point blow out for Bama ...

I need something that makes is LESS LIKELY that Bama repeats again next year .... but I don't really have any ideas that I think would work that aren't basically ..."You can't play anymore since you are too good"!

I want something that is "power smash" rather than "power protect" ... but it would never fly to have 8 team playoff with first round at the LOWER seed .... but I COULD maybe get away with Power Smash and making them play at the lower seed at the beginning of NEXT year....

I don't know ... Maybe just enjoy watching the same two or three teams always in the championship game .... Despite the NFL's structural rules to help the weaker teams and hurt the stronger teams ... New England has STILL been to a ton of Superbowls .... maybe that fine ...

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Re: Any Options for more variety in NCG games?

Postby Iconoclast » December 30th, 2018, 12:03 am

Get rid of scheduling more than two years in advance is a good start.
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Re: Any Options for more variety in NCG games?

Postby Jake » December 31st, 2018, 10:35 am

Probably should've posted this article here, rather than the other thread.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/281 ... =editorial

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Re: Any Options for more variety in NCG games?

Postby MikeTheTiger » December 31st, 2018, 1:45 pm

Jake wrote:Probably should've posted this article here, rather than the other thread.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/281 ... =editorial


Again, hindsight is 20-20. What reason do we have to believe Ohio St would have fared any better against Bama than Oklahoma did? Even in the big win over Michigan, they still gave up 39 points. That came on the heels of an OT win over Maryland in which they gave up 51 points, a 5-point win over Nebraska and a blowout loss to Purdue (with a quality win over Michigan St sandwiched in between). This was much more about the strength of Alabama and Clemson than it was their playing the wrong opponents.

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Re: Any Options for more variety in NCG games?

Postby Xenon » December 31st, 2018, 2:23 pm

*YNC* MikeTheTiger wrote:
Jake wrote:Probably should've posted this article here, rather than the other thread.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/281 ... =editorial


Again, hindsight is 20-20. What reason do we have to believe Ohio St would have fared any better against Bama than Oklahoma did? Even in the big win over Michigan, they still gave up 39 points. That came on the heels of an OT win over Maryland in which they gave up 51 points, a 5-point win over Nebraska and a blowout loss to Purdue (with a quality win over Michigan St sandwiched in between). This was much more about the strength of Alabama and Clemson than it was their playing the wrong opponents.


I think it has to be something STRUCTURAL in the NCAA to change the playing field in order to have more teams be legitimately contending for the National Championship. I don't think it was the SELECTION of the teams that is the problem ...

Decades ago, the "Big Boys" used to vacuum all the talent onto a few teams. To change that, recruiting and roster size was used to hopefully spread out the talent. I think we need something similar to that ....

Reduce the roster and recruiting for the CFP teams each year ... which eventually will lead to more teams getting more of the top talent and more teams competing ... similar to the DRAFT in the NFL. Something like that.

Sure, we could give Georgia a THIRD try at Alabama in 11 months ... and it probably would have been closer than the Oklahoma - BAMA game ... but why would you expect a different outcome ...

On ND - Clemson ... the facts are the ND and Clemson had pretty similar seasons. Honestly, neither of them played a particularly tough schedule. In some senses, ND probably "proved" themselves more than Clemson before the game with the win over Michigan. NOW, I think most people "knew" that Clemson was better than they had shown themselves or proven themselves to be. But going into the game, BOTH Clemson and ND were "overrated" relative to what they actually proven on the field. As it turned out, (which is not surprising since we have seen it from Clemson for 3 to 5 years) Clemson really was ALOT better than they shown themselves to be this year against a relatively weak schedule ... and ND was about as good as they had shown themselves to be.

I don't blame the committee really ... I don't think it was as easy as saying put in tOSU and Georgia instead ... and just doing that doesn't really fix the problem of trying to spread out the talent pool to more schools...

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Re: Any Options for more variety in NCG games?

Postby irish 78 » December 31st, 2018, 3:29 pm

I don't what you can do to change the structure. Alabama and Clemson are the 2 best programs. They keep recruiting the best recruiting classes too. They are well coached and have great players and significant depth.

OSU. Georgia and Oklahoma are reasonably close to them talent-wise. A&M will be making a push and Michigan might also, but until someone beats Alabama and Clemson, they are going to be in the final 4 and maybe the final 2.

You could try to penalize them for not graduating players (although I think they do OK there also and some don't graduate because they leave for the NFL).

Miami, USC, FSU, Florida, OSU and Oklahoma have all dominated for stretches over the last 40 years. You have to get better players and coaches if you want to beat them. At some point Sabin will retire and Swinney might go to the NFL (or Alabama, which is scary too). Things will change. Just not right now.

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Re: Any Options for more variety in NCG games?

Postby Xenon » December 31st, 2018, 8:40 pm

I want a way to make it HARDER to repeat .... but I don't really know how to do that ....

I think most SUCCESSFUL leagues have a way to do that.....

It's one thing that I have heard people complain about in the European Soccer leagues ... Barcalona just buys all the best players and wins all the time ....

I think the NFL and the NBA have a nice system with the draft and schedules ... so I want to mimic that somehow in the NCAA, but I'm not really sure how.

It's crazy... but I do want to "punish" someone for getting to the CFP and then winning the MNC ... so that someone else has a better chance the next year. I think you need BOTH a boost to the teams not doing as well and a "punishment" for the teams that are successful.

I agree that the NCAA theoretically has that, but the feedback loop seems to slow somehow.

Of course, the NBA seems to only cycle teams by cycling players .... so I don't know ... and the NFL has had the Patriots for decades!!! So maybe there isn't a way to cycle teams effectively.

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Re: Any Options for more variety in NCG games?

Postby Iconoclast » January 1st, 2019, 7:54 pm

Xenon wrote:
I think the NFL and the NBA have a nice system with the draft and schedules ... so I want to mimic that somehow in the NCAA, but I'm not really sure how.


Well I guarantee that the conferences are not going to give up scheduling control. Plus if the NCAA did take over scheduling it would take about a decade for all the pre scheduled OOC games to be cycled through, unless the teams just vacated those contracts. I've said it for years that these games that are scheduled out 8 or more years in advance should not be allowed, but it's a business pure and simple.




I agree that the NCAA theoretically has that, but the feedback loop seems to slow somehow.


How? There is no feedback loop.

Of course, the NBA seems to only cycle teams by cycling players .... so I don't know ... and the NFL has had the Patriots for decades!!! So maybe there isn't a way to cycle teams effectively.


The NBA is a joke in terms of player movement. Stern for years had his hand in player movement, from the draft to free agency. It was all to make sure the money market teams were more competitive to help generate more TV dollars.

As to the NFL, they do a pretty good job of it. One team bucking the trend doesn't imply that it isn't working. Philly won it all last year and was the last team into the playoffs this year, and needed help to get in.
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