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Ohio State - what say you?

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Re: Ohio State - what say you?

Postby *YNC* MikeTheTiger » August 8th, 2018, 11:42 am

Iconoclast wrote:All well and good, but Zach Smith stated on Friday that Meyer pulled him aside and asked if he hit her. Smith said no, and Meyer said if he did, he would be fired on the spot. Now Smiths wife has shown texts that she sent to Shelly Meyer that shows injuries that certainly could point to him hitting her.


This actually points to the fact that Meyer didn't believe there was enough proof that Smith was lying to him. Why would he say what he did to Smith if he didn't actually intend to fire him if he found out he was hitting her? The texts did show injuries consistent with Courtney Smith's claims, but they aren't proof that Zach Smith caused the injuries or that they weren't a result of Zach Smith defending himself against some aggression on her part. The police clearly saw the same injuries and decided they didn't have enough evidence to make a case even though Courtney Smith wanted to prosecute. Do I think Zach Smith probably abused his wife in that incident? Yes. Do I think I know enough about all the facts of the case to say definitively that he should have been fired or prosecuted? No.

Iconoclast wrote:Plus there are texts from Smith's wife that confirm Zach Smith acknowledged abuse of her.


I saw those texts and I think it is somewhat ambiguous what Zach Smith was admitting. People say they are sorry for disputes in relationships all the time without necessarily agreeing with the other person's interpretation of the specifics.

Iconoclast wrote:Now all of that may not prove guilt, however it should have warranted some digging.


I certainly agree with that. It's just not clear at this point what was or was not done at the time. Ohio St didn't speak directly with Courtney Smith, but they may have been relying upon the police investigation. How thorough that investigation was and what their specifics conclusions were, I don't know. That, too, warrants investigation, which is what his happening now.

Iconoclast wrote:Plus, why was Smith recently fired? He hadn't done anything recently. It was because of what happened in 2015.


He was fired for violating a restraining order in the present while Ohio St was under scrutiny for sexual misconduct by a former wrestling coach. I'm sure the other incidents played into Urban Meyer's decision, but it was the current actions that precipitated the firing.

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Re: Ohio State - what say you?

Postby Iconoclast » August 8th, 2018, 1:54 pm

That's all very reasonable Mike and I cannot argue against it, however it is speculation. The current investigation will, supposedly, uncover the facts.

One last thing is that Meyer lied about it at Big 10 media day. Sure, he claims he was not prepared to answer that, which some find to be a weak excuse given a guy who micro prepares for everything. But assuming he is telling the truth as to why he lied, one has to wonder why it took him a full month to fess up. He had to be placed on leave for him to admit he lied. To me, why wouldn't he have held a press conference a few days after media day and just fess up then? It took media scrutiny and a LOA for him to admit to it.
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Re: Ohio State - what say you?

Postby *YNC* MikeTheTiger » August 9th, 2018, 6:40 am

Iconoclast wrote:That's all very reasonable Mike and I cannot argue against it, however it is speculation. The current investigation will, supposedly, uncover the facts.


That's really my point. It's all speculation on everyone's part, but there seems to be a rush to judgment. Let's see what comes of the investigation.

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Re: Ohio State - what say you?

Postby Iconoclast » August 9th, 2018, 3:13 pm

*YNC* MikeTheTiger wrote:
Iconoclast wrote:That's all very reasonable Mike and I cannot argue against it, however it is speculation. The current investigation will, supposedly, uncover the facts.


That's really my point. It's all speculation on everyone's part, but there seems to be a rush to judgment. Let's see what comes of the investigation.


And that's fine. However there is a lot that doesn't make sense and which would point to him not doing what he should have done back in 2015. In addition to my discussion above as to the lying and then recanting, there is the fact that if he followed protocol correctly, then why did the school suspend him and why this investigation? Wouldn't the school have it on record that he reported it in 2015 and the incident followed correct protocol? I would think that there would be some incident report of some sort. I would have thought that they would have reviewed the initial incident earlier this year when Meyer fired him. It just seems like a lot of playing catchup by the university right now.
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Re: Ohio State - what say you?

Postby *YNC* MikeTheTiger » August 9th, 2018, 4:01 pm

Iconoclast wrote:And that's fine. However there is a lot that doesn't make sense and which would point to him not doing what he should have done back in 2015. In addition to my discussion above as to the lying and then recanting, there is the fact that if he followed protocol correctly, then why did the school suspend him and why this investigation? Wouldn't the school have it on record that he reported it in 2015 and the incident followed correct protocol? I would think that there would be some incident report of some sort. I would have thought that they would have reviewed the initial incident earlier this year when Meyer fired him. It just seems like a lot of playing catchup by the university right now.


To be honest, I think a lot of it is about PR for the university. They were already in hot water for the wrestling coach and didn't want to look like they weren't taking this seriously. It doesn't necessarily mean Meyer didn't do what he was supposed to do back then. It was investigated by the police, so it's not like they were engaged in a cover-up and their actions weren't what allowed Smith to escape justice.

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Re: Ohio State - what say you?

Postby Iconoclast » August 9th, 2018, 6:54 pm

*YNC* MikeTheTiger wrote:
Iconoclast wrote:And that's fine. However there is a lot that doesn't make sense and which would point to him not doing what he should have done back in 2015. In addition to my discussion above as to the lying and then recanting, there is the fact that if he followed protocol correctly, then why did the school suspend him and why this investigation? Wouldn't the school have it on record that he reported it in 2015 and the incident followed correct protocol? I would think that there would be some incident report of some sort. I would have thought that they would have reviewed the initial incident earlier this year when Meyer fired him. It just seems like a lot of playing catchup by the university right now.


To be honest, I think a lot of it is about PR for the university. They were already in hot water for the wrestling coach and didn't want to look like they weren't taking this seriously. It doesn't necessarily mean Meyer didn't do what he was supposed to do back then. It was investigated by the police, so it's not like they were engaged in a cover-up and their actions weren't what allowed Smith to escape justice.


Certainly could be the reason, for sure it's part of the reason. Why Smith escaped legal justice is up to the DA and the LE and is separate from the discipline afforded to a coach. And you and I know that if this were the the coach of the track team, he would have been gone.
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Re: Ohio State - what say you?

Postby *YNC* MikeTheTiger » August 10th, 2018, 8:19 am

Iconoclast wrote:And you and I know that if this were the the coach of the track team, he would have been gone.


Ohio St is in hot water right now for letting things slide with a wrestling coach, so I don't necessarily agree with that premise.

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Re: Ohio State - what say you?

Postby Iconoclast » August 10th, 2018, 6:01 pm

*YNC* MikeTheTiger wrote:
Iconoclast wrote:And you and I know that if this were the the coach of the track team, he would have been gone.


Ohio St is in hot water right now for letting things slide with a wrestling coach, so I don't necessarily agree with that premise.


Maybe I should rephrase this, if this weren't a coach considered among the top 5 in college football, he would be gone.
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Re: Ohio State - what say you?

Postby VOL^ » August 10th, 2018, 6:54 pm

I really have mixed feelings on this.

Today's revelation that the girl said she would "Take Zach down and that she would take Meyer down too" is really significant, especially since it is confirmed by both her mother and her mother-in-law. The girl is estranged from her mother; I'd like to know why.

If these two ladies said this and are willing to testify to that to the committee investigating this, then it puts things in a different light.

If Meyer passed this up the chain of command, then he did his job. You can't fire someone because of a he said, she said. You have to have grounds. Obviously they felt they had grounds recently because they fired him.

Why did the police not press charges in 2015?

Did the university hinder the investigation?

Did they actually believe there was no abuse to charge him with?

Meyer's biggest problem as I see it is lying to the media. He clearly did that and has admitted it.

The university has grounds right there to dismiss him because I know he has a morals clause and that clearly would violate it and give them grounds for a 'for cause' firing. Is that the right thing to do?

I've seen people on the Internet stating that State will cover this up, blah, blah, blah. I don't believe that for a second. This is an 'institutional changing' situation. They can't afford to get this wrong. One side of that is that they should not fire Meyer just for the lie if they believe it is in the best interest of the university not to do so. I believe they have grounds to do so, but I don't think they should do it just based on that if he did his part in reporting the abuse. I'm not a fan of being forced to do something because the mob says you should. If the media day sin is all he has on him, then ye that be without and so on ... I just don't see that rising to a ‘fireable’ offense. I'd say that may deserve a suspension.

All of my thoughts are fluid. I believe far too many people have drawn their battle lines on this issue and the truth would not budge them one way or the other. I have learned in my not too short life that jumping to conclusions is not a good exercise.

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Re: Ohio State - what say you?

Postby Iconoclast » August 11th, 2018, 6:16 pm

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